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Weird thoughts
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| Zorock | Date: Wednesday, 2009-06-24, 0:49 AM | Message # 61 |
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| I see why  Quote (Animal) you destroy its mass, and so you weaken the gravity's force.
This is not what i was referring to... I was sayign that it is infinite and can't be blocked.. not that it can't be removed And btw.. we should move this topic into the other thread "The Big universe" This is for weird thoughts only and not physics xD
Those who underestimates themselves shall stay in misery where they belong. Steam ID: dragon_of_doom
Message edited by Ateist - Wednesday, 2009-06-24, 0:51 AM |
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| Animal | Date: Wednesday, 2009-06-24, 10:43 PM | Message # 62 |
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| Waht?! Thats all? Wheres your argument? I don't see a "Space DOES exist!" or somethin like that xD Quote (Ateist) This is not what i was referring to... I was sayign that it is infinite and can't be blocked.. not that it can't be removed
Well, if u remove the mass, you block the force of gravity.
But to be honest, i don't understand your use of "infinite" in the context of gravity.
The fact that something can not (or can?) be blocked does not mean that it is infinite
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| Zorock | Date: Thursday, 2009-06-25, 0:34 AM | Message # 63 |
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| I still dont get you... You can't say that if something is destroyed, then its also blocked -.-' if something is destroyed then its destroyed... If you block, then it has to exist... you can't block something that doesn't exist... Therefore you dont block it if you destroy it... And I never said anything about gravity having to be blocked in order to be infinite... I just say that it is infinite, and also that it can't be blocked... Also I dont care much about whether or not space "exists" (as some material) or really is "empty"...
It would almost be the same as discussing wethere or not there are anything else than a magnetic force between a proton and its electron..
Those who underestimates themselves shall stay in misery where they belong. Steam ID: dragon_of_doom
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| Animal | Date: Thursday, 2009-06-25, 2:07 PM | Message # 64 |
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| Quote (Ateist) You can't say that if something is destroyed, then its also blocked
I didn't say "destroy the force of gravity , it is blocked then", i said " destroy the matter itself, then you will block the force of gravity"
matter and force of gravity are 2 different things,destroying the one doesnt mean destroying the other one
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| Zorock | Date: Thursday, 2009-06-25, 5:12 PM | Message # 65 |
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| If you destroy the sun we wont have light...
If you destroy the Earth we wont have the gravity...
If you destroys somethings source then its the same thing as destroying the thing itself.. in this case, somethings gravity... So if you destroy the matter which creates the gravity then you also destroy the gravity, which is not the same thing as blocking it. Look at it this way... If you kill a man punching you, then you haven't "blocked" the punch... You stopped it..... Not block..... But Stop...
Those who underestimates themselves shall stay in misery where they belong. Steam ID: dragon_of_doom
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| Animal | Date: Thursday, 2009-06-25, 10:48 PM | Message # 66 |
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| heh, ok, agreed, we don't know how to block gravity. Quote (Ateist) If you destroy the Earth we wont have the gravity...
wrong^^ we still will have gravity, but not that intensive as we know it ofc. Quote (Ateist) So if you destroy the matter which creates the gravity then you also destroy the gravity, which is not the same thing as blocking it.
Thats a good point. Is gravity really caused by mass? If yes, lets imagine that: The sun's mass is reduced extremly (by what doesnt matter).
When will we notice it? When will the decrease of the mass of the sun cause effects on the earth? After 8 minuts (this is the time the light of the sun needs to reach the earth)? Instantly?
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| Zorock | Date: Thursday, 2009-06-25, 10:55 PM | Message # 67 |
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| Well... At first the size of the mass doesn't matter... the gravity is the same as long as the mass' weight is the same... Second.. The time it takes for the suns rays to hit the earth is 8 minutes as you say ^^ So if the size of the sun gets smaller we will not notice it before those 8 minutes... Neither will it affect the rest of Earth before those 8 minutes.. It's like when playing on the internet at there is 8 minutes delay (a bit extreme but try to imagine) you click and nothing happens before those 8 minutes... the sun shrinks and nothing will happen to Earth before those 8 minutes
Those who underestimates themselves shall stay in misery where they belong. Steam ID: dragon_of_doom
Message edited by Ateist - Thursday, 2009-06-25, 10:57 PM |
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| Animal | Date: Friday, 2009-06-26, 1:49 PM | Message # 68 |
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| Quote (Ateist) At first the size of the mass doesn't matter... the gravity is the same as long as the mass' weight is the same
nope^^ maybe i should have used the term gravitation. Gravitation means that objects with mass attract one another; here is the mass important. Quote (Ateist) So if the size of the sun gets smaller we will not notice it before those 8 minutes... Neither will it affect the rest of Earth before those 8 minutes..
Well, you seem to be quite sure about that^^
In fact, noone knows. Newton for example said that a change of the sun's mass will instantly influence the earth, but Einstein said that the effects of gravitation are caused by a spacetime curvature ( not by a force; Newton thought that its casued by a force), therefore a change of the sun's gravity will spread with speed of light and influence the Earth after 8 minutes. Quote The force of gravity is infinte. (Ateist)
Seems like you argue contradictory:
If you say that we will notice a change of the sun's mass after 8 minutes, you follow Einstein's theory of general relativity- but Einstein said in his theory that gravitation is no force and is not caused by a force.
But if you say that gravity is a force, you follow Newton's law of universal gravitation- but Newton said in his law that a change of the sun's mass will instantly influence the Earth.
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| Zorock | Date: Friday, 2009-06-26, 2:07 PM | Message # 69 |
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| I think you missed my point about size... And I think we are talking besides each other... (I used a few wrong terms which might have been the reason for that) I think we should agree to some terms first like: mass = weight right? Matter is what everything touchable is made of... The size of the matter doesn't matter as long as the mass is the same. E.g. black holes are very small with a huge mass which creates an enormous gravity field which even draws the suns rays into it. (which is why it is black) What I meant about this entire topic is that the black holes gravity field is infinite and just keeps getting weaker and weaker the further out in spaces it reaches. However it can't be blocked. I'm not saying that the gravity can't be stopped (still not blocked) because it can. I'm just saying it can't be blocked.. now pls argue against it if I am wrong. I dont know much about Einsteins and Newtons theories, but imagine the suns rays like this:
You throw a ball which will affect the thing it hits (like the suns rays) You then change the arm, (you see where I'm going?) IT WONT CHANGE THE BALL!! what a big surprise... Now why should any changes to the sun be noticed on earth before those 8 minutes????
Those who underestimates themselves shall stay in misery where they belong. Steam ID: dragon_of_doom
Message edited by Ateist - Friday, 2009-06-26, 2:12 PM |
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| Animal | Date: Friday, 2009-06-26, 3:35 PM | Message # 70 |
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| Quote (Ateist) mass = weight right?
No! These are two completely different things. In daily life the unit of mass - kilograms - is used in the wrong way. In daily life we use kilograms (kg) to describe the weight of a thing, but in phyics the unit of weight is newton (N), because the weight is a force. But the unit of mass is kilograms.
The weight of an object results from the interaction of its mass with a gravitational field. [mass in kg] * g = [weight in N]; g is (simplified) the standard gravity at the Earth's surface at sea level; g = 9.81 m/(s*s) = 9.81 N/kg (approximately) Lets take a chair as an example: The chair has got a mass of 1 kg. On the earth he has got a weight of 9.81 N then. But on the moon, we have to change our g , because the moon has got a different gravitational field. g = 1,63 m/(s*s) = 1.63 N/kg
So if we put our chair on the moon, it still has got his mass of 1 kg, but a weight of only 1.63 N . It's easier to throw it in the air then^^
But the mass of the chair only changes if we take matter away (for example if we cut it into a few pieces) Quote (Ateist) Matter is what everything touchable is made of
It's difficult to define. In common, yes, but after we discovered the particel-wave-dualism, we know that even light rays are matter (but they are energy waves too), and since they are matter, they have got mass and since they've got mass, they are influenced by gravtitation/ other masses. Quote (Ateist) ut imagine the suns rays like this:
why sun's rays? we've been talking about sun's gravity i thought^^ I jsut said that a change of the sun's mass could cause effects one Earth instantly or in the time the sun's rays need to get to us. I refered to the speed of light, not to the light itself.
Or did you mean "I imagine the change of mass/gravitation like this"?
in the time the sunlight
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| Zorock | Date: Friday, 2009-06-26, 4:26 PM | Message # 71 |
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| Ok.. I know how you define mass now ^^
And by defining matter as everything touchable I also meant protons and all other stuff which is "existing" without a reason. (magnetism wouldn't be a matter since you can't touch it and it exists because of a reason I believe) And I think I got a bit confused about the sun part... I got the impression that it was the rays we were talking about and not its gravity field.. About the gravity field I think you are right that we will get affected instantly. I can't imagine otherwise unless we knew of some sort of speed which a force expands with.
At least I dont know about such a speed. So back to our main topic.. Do you think I am right when I say that a gravity field reaches all over the endless universe? and that it is not able to block it? Or do you think that a field of gravity have a limit for how far it reaches? and that it can be blocked? If its one of the last two options (or both) tell me why and how
Those who underestimates themselves shall stay in misery where they belong. Steam ID: dragon_of_doom
Message edited by Ateist - Friday, 2009-06-26, 4:26 PM |
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| Animal | Date: Saturday, 2009-06-27, 3:31 PM | Message # 72 |
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| Quote (Ateist) About the gravity field I think you are right that we will get affected instantly. I can't imagine otherwise unless we knew of some sort of speed which a force expands with.
That's the point, we don't even know for sure whether its a force or not. But modern scientists usually think that it's no force and that it spreads with light speed (and doesnt affect instantly), because most of modern scientists follow Einstein's theory, at least big parts of it (and Einstein said that there can not be a faster speed than light speed) Quote (Ateist) Do you think I am right when I say that a gravity field reaches all over the endless universe?
I think yes, but i didn't study physics, and at this point i can only give my personal opinion.
But as far as i know, the effect of gravitation depends heavily on the distance between the objects, so if the distance is big enough, the effect could be so little that we don't notice it at all. Quote (Ateist) and that it is not able to block it?
I really have no idea. (and i don't know if the scientists have an idea about that), but i read about another theory that gravitation is spread by some kind of particles called gravitons (but in opposite to Einstein's theory there are no evidences that this theory could be true). But lets imagine that it is true, then maybe gravitation could be blocked by somehow blocking these gravitons
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| Zorock | Date: Saturday, 2009-06-27, 4:35 PM | Message # 73 |
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| Quote (Animal) Einstein said that there can not be a faster speed than light speed I know that, but I think there are some things faster than light. I dont know them yet, but I still believe that there are something faster than light. Quote (Animal) the effect could be so little that we don't notice it at all. true enough. But it would still be there... Its like walking halfway towards something.. then do it again, and again, and again... You would never come all the way but you can come really close Quote (Animal) i read about another theory that gravitation is spread by some kind of particles called gravitons I haven't heard about that theory, but that sounds like mad-mans talk. It's the same thing as saying magnetism is also made of particles, which it is not.
Those who underestimates themselves shall stay in misery where they belong. Steam ID: dragon_of_doom
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| Hakken | Date: Saturday, 2009-06-27, 5:08 PM | Message # 74 |
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| I can add something to the infinite forces.
So, as we all know gravity is a force. It is counted on this way: F=G*m*M/r^2 when G = 6,67 m is 1st mass M is 2nd mass and r is distance between bodies.so gravity isn't infinit. You can rise it or make it smaller, and you can compleatly destroy it, by destroying 1 objcet. However, this cannont be done YET becuasy it has do be destroyd with antymatiria, which we can't get in the right emount YET. That was i can say about infinite gravity. MYTH BUSTED! and about the "blocking" now. Gravity makes work W=sF and we both gravity is a force so the distance that it will make to move the body will be our "s". We also know, that W=E (energy) and enrgy CANNOT be destroyd it can be changed, but not destroyd, so by destroying one mass we will block the gravity because the enrgy will be changed, not destroyed.
There are just 10 types of pealpe. Thoose who understands binary and thoose who don't.
Message edited by Hakken - Saturday, 2009-06-27, 5:09 PM |
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| Alnitak | Date: Thursday, 2009-07-02, 6:51 PM | Message # 75 |
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| You all should try to enter in the N.A.S.A, I heard that they have a really good pay 
You can run but you can´t hide!
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