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Weird thoughts
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| Kamizi | Date: Saturday, 2011-08-06, 1:07 PM | Message # 256 |
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| God has made everything as good but Satan has traited him so... He has just allowed him to exist (ofc this will end one day...). God gave the human will so he can choose his... side: good one or evil one but ofc like in every happy ends good side will win the battle.
About religion, God has left in every person sth that makes him want to belive that there's sth more than just human's mind and everyone's seeking that in his way... that's why there are so many religions on the world and also ateism where ppl belive... in theirselves.
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| Jilako | Date: Tuesday, 2011-08-09, 11:38 AM | Message # 257 |
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| I will not deny the existence of a God or of Satan in this part
How can you know that it is God who allows the existence of Satan and not the other way around? That actually, it would be Satan who would have done everything and that God and his "son" have tainted everything?
Also, you say God (supposing that it's god who did everything blabla) gave mankind will, so they can define what is good and bad...So, what is the good side? Does it even exist? A good thing can be a bad thing for someone else etc..
Quote About religion, God has left in every person sth that makes him want to belive that there's sth more than just human's mind and everyone's seeking that in his way
I think that this thing you are speaking about is called "Ignorance" and I seriously doubt that it is any God who has put it in our mind.
What am I , Who am I except a ghost from old times?
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| Animal4675 | Date: Tuesday, 2011-08-09, 11:41 AM | Message # 258 |
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| Quote (Kamizi) God has made everything as good but Satan has traited him so
Did you just state that you don't believe that your god is almighty and omniscient?
Quote (Kamizi) God has left in every person sth that makes him want to belive that there's sth more than just human's mind
Hm, strange, seems he left out me...Np, God, shit happens.
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| Turalyon | Date: Tuesday, 2011-08-09, 9:24 PM | Message # 259 |
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| Quote (Zorock) And no tur, no comments from you allowed!
Sorry, I can´t resist any discussion where some people have incompleted or wrong arguments. If you want to exclude me out of the discussion, you´ll have to make a private thread and invite "certain" people to be able to see it.
Quote (Zorock) If God created men, he would have created them with religion too, in order for them to worship him, which makes sense.
Not really. I´ll give you a counter-argument. If God created wolves, he created them with religion too, in order to worship him (some would describe it as "howling to the moon"), which makes sense. But from our knowledge we know that the reason for their howling is a different one.
The right assumption would be: If God created men, he might have made them along with religion too - but he could have not. Maybe he´s just an arogant bastard who wants to play with his toys by seeing how they fare (like playing Sims) - who are you to say otherwise?
Quote (Zorock) But why would a god also create people that would directly defy him in any possible way or worship the devil instead?
Quote (Zorock) (Logically speaking... Of course a god could decide to create stuff that hates him.. but why would he?)
I´ll give you 3 guesses that come right to my mind without any deep thought.
- For the fun of it (imagine you being a bastard who wants to give a candy to the kid, but you never do, and you enjoy him crying)
- Because he´s a genius that knows that true thought comes from your own mind - aka, you learn yourself that "devil" is not a true "excellence", which makes God the one who should be it (but true, that´s another wrong assumption, but I´m just giving examples)
- Because he´s a sadist.
Quote (Zorock) For this to be logical he would have to create humans with free wills and an undetermined future. So, if we do have a god lurking around out there somewhere (or everywhere) we would have free will logically speaking, but if he isn't, then I guess the question still remains strong.
My previous argument nullifies this one.
Quote (Kamizi) God has made everything as good but Satan has traited him so... He has just allowed him to exist (ofc this will end one day...). God gave the human will so he can choose his... side: good one or evil one but ofc like in every happy ends good side will win the battle.
For you to actually know that there is a Satan and God, would mean that you achieved some really awesome understanding of the Universe that no other human being has yet, to state that what you know is true. Which I kind of doubt you have. But let´s say you are one of those people who believe that a book was "written" by men who heard God speaking to them. If God would want to seperate people between good and evil, he would´ve just done so. If he wanted to have fun while doing so, he would give them free will and intimidate them with "eternal hell" and stuff like that. But if he would want to have a fun like that, he probably wouldn´t have bothered telling it to only a bunch of people who wrote it down in a book afterwards, but would simply integrate it in people´s brains or what ever.
And again, who are you to say what is good and what is evil. Some stuff are considered evil because "most" people agree it is, not everybody. And why would you assume that "God" is that maximum point of goodness (or just "good" without the maximum)? If I were to say that in this Universe there exists some sort of a reference to a perfect maximum of conceivable smelliness. Therefore there must exist a pre-eminently peerless stinker, and we call him God (in Bible it does not say he´s not a pre-eminently peerless stinker, so I say he is!).
Quote (Kamizi) God has left in every person sth that makes him want to belive that there's sth more than just human's mind
That is somewhat similar to saying "I don´t know how black matter can produce so much energy, therefore God did it.". What makes you believe that if there is a God, he would leave some implemented thinking in every person (aka not giving them free-will) - but if that is the case, why even bother doing anything then? I mean, if God promises eternal life and all that is connected to it, why make strings attached to it and not allowing people to just kill themselves and enjoying it? And no, "If you kill yourself that´s a sin, which makes you unable to go to heaven." is not an argument. Because I could say that I believe that "If you think like Kamizi does, it makes you unable to achieve an orgasm after year of 50." and I could and would convince people to agree with me as well, and nothing you would say would make me think otherwise.
Quote (Kamizi) that's why there are so many religions on the world and also ateism where ppl belive... in theirselves.
That´s what I would call your point of view, or your thought about it. But like I and Bam said, if everything is predetermined, everybody believing in a God just stated that he is both omnipotent and omniscient AND that he is not at the same time, because both terms nullify each other just by saying them (little word proof: Can omniscient God, who knows the future, find the omnipotence to change His future mind? or ... Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?)
Now let´s say that all believers and all the non-believers (who are not agnostic to 100% - which is most) read and know A LOT about religion and compare it with science, neuroscience, biology, math (and I stress math because it´s the only infinite abstract subject and it actually overmines physics and science combined - and of course to people like Fuzz: math is not numbers, you can check it here on Wikipedia what it actually means - Mathematics), physics and of course quantum physics being the most important. Once you´ve done all of the comparison, you will be able to state that you know something, and that is the point where your thoughts actually count. Any thought about stuff that are not proven that you currently have are either not sufficient, made up or yet to be proven.
So, if you state that you believe in something, I will tell you to go back to kindergarden. And if you would say "well you believe that Universe consists of 96% black matter and only 4% is what we know (sun, stars, planets, people, etc...)", I will say "No ... that´s a thought I have about it and think it´s very very very very ... very highly likely of being true, but I do not believe in it.". Now ... if you say that you have a "thought" about God and all of his creation, that would mean that
1.) you either don´t believe in him, but you just think he might be there
2.) or you think of it as a fairytale
So enjoy your paradoxal mind of "belief in stuff".
In conclusion: IF there is a God (and I stress the "if") ... he made everything so fucking perfect that it would appear that there is no God, just to fuck us all over. But than again, why do people believe in him, if he made it like that on purpose. He´s probably an arogant God who picks and chooses.
So, if there is a God, he made everything appear as if he´s not existant.
And if you believe in the Old Testament God, then I can´t help you with words. Even Richard Dawkins gave him a proper description.
"God of the Old Testament is the most unpleasant character of all fiction. Jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty, ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilencial, megalomaniacle, sadomachohistic, capriciously melevolant bully."
Your resoning is excellent -- it's only your basic asumptions that are wrong.
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| Kamizi | Date: Tuesday, 2011-08-09, 11:27 PM | Message # 260 |
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| Quote (Turalyon) For you to actually know that there is a Satan and God, would mean that you achieved some really awesome understanding of the Universe that no other human being has yet, to state that what you know is true. Which I kind of doubt you have. But let´s say you are one of those people who believe that a book was "written" by men who heard God speaking to them. If God would want to seperate people between good and evil, he would´ve just done so. If he wanted to have fun while doing so, he would give them free will and intimidate them with "eternal hell" and stuff like that. But if he would want to have a fun like that, he probably wouldn´t have bothered telling it to only a bunch of people who wrote it down in a book afterwards, but would simply integrate it in people´s brains or what ever.
Would you punish your child before it'd do something bad?
Quote (Turalyon) That is somewhat similar to saying "I don´t know how black matter can produce so much energy, therefore God did it.". What makes you believe that if there is a God, he would leave some implemented thinking in every person (aka not giving them free-will) - but if that is the case, why even bother doing anything then?
That is free will but still, do you prefer to have some kind of a heaven after death or think in the way of there's nothing, your soul gets torn and it's all over? Becoz if there's nothing after death, if there is no God, then you can also suicide now and don't care about anything becoz your life is just pointless. So that thing is a some kind of our life's target, get into the heaven.
Quote (Turalyon) "If you think like Kamizi does, it makes you unable to achieve an orgasm after year of 50."
it doesn't make any sense even a bit. Becoz there are days when you "can" make new life and there are days when you're unable to do it. Kondoms are just not the natural way of... a barrier, that's why the church doesn't allow it. Natural ones are like territory, species or interfility.
Quote (Turalyon) Can omniscient God, who knows the future, find the omnipotence to change His future mind? or ... Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?)
In your way of thinking: if you don't belive in God, why shall he protect you? You don't belive that He does exist so why would he help you? Although he does. That's why miracles happen to ppl that really belive in God.
Anyway, God has proven his existance so many times, just ppl don't belive it so... it's ppl's problem and their choice.
Quote (Turalyon) he made everything so fucking perfect that it would appear that there is no God
It's like getting money for doing nothing. Why would He reward you for not beliving? Anyway, it's said that you'll be rewarded after death.
Quote (Turalyon) He´s probably an arogant God who picks and chooses.
He has made everything so everything belongs to him, He's like the boss so He has rights to do whatever he wants.
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| Animal | Date: Tuesday, 2011-08-09, 11:53 PM | Message # 261 |
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| Quote (Kamizi) Becoz if there's nothing after death, if there is no God, then you can also suicide now and don't care about anything becoz your life is just pointless. So that thing is a some kind of our life's target, get into the heaven.
Why would I suicide when there would be no afterlife? If you even ask that question, then you missed lots and lots of all the nice stuff this life offers. Of course, if you follow a bunch of old rules that restrict you from having fun, then hoping for an afterlife might be... uhm, still not good, but better than nothing. You should seriously just reconsider what this world has to offer. To be honest, I even find it that nice that I have absolutely no urge to crave for a "big daddy up there".
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| Turalyon | Date: Wednesday, 2011-08-10, 0:14 AM | Message # 262 |
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| Quote (Kamizi) Would you punish your child before it'd do something bad?
I personally see no reason for it.
And what does that even have to do with the quote from me? (I know you´re trying to make a reference, but the way you´re going, it´s not gonna bring you far).
It´s based on people´s morale and ethics. If you think need a book or a higher being to push you in the right direction to get morale and ethics, then I feel sorry for you.
Quote (Kamizi) That is free will but still, do you prefer to have some kind of a heaven after death or think in the way of there's nothing, your soul gets torn and it's all over? Becoz if there's nothing after death, if there is no God, then you can also suicide now and don't care about anything becoz your life is just pointless. So that thing is a some kind of our life's target, get into the heaven.
You´re assuming there is an afterlife. You´re so convinced (I guess that is what belief is called) that there is an afterlife that you don´t even want to bother living the life as if there wasn´t. Ok, maybe there is, but I would surely bet all that I love that at least 99.9% of the people don´t know it either.
And besides, why are you so convinced that "afterlife" or "heaven" would be even a happy, fun and a pleasant place?
Let´s say you live your life hoping that there is a better life coming, and then you get disappointed with the exact opposite ... what would you think of your former life?
I live my life as if it´s my only one. I do hope that there would be an adventure after I die, but I wouldn´t count on it.
Quote (Kamizi) it doesn't make any sense even a bit. Becoz there are days when you "can" make new life and there are days when you're unable to do it. Kondoms are just not the natural way of... a barrier, that's why the church doesn't allow it. Natural ones are like territory, species or interfility.
*facepalm* I think you misunderstood the sarcasm there.
Quote (Kamizi) In your way of thinking: if you don't belive in God, why shall he protect you? You don't belive that He does exist so why would he help you? Although he does. That's why miracles happen to ppl that really belive in God.
Anyway, God has proven his existance so many times, just ppl don't belive it so... it's ppl's problem and their choice.
Ok, Kamizi, you´ve broken the ice finally. Give me ONE proof of God´s exsistance. If you give me a good one, I´ll even consider it with deep thoughts and research and experiments and to not bore the rest of the forum readers, I´ll send you my response (if it will be big) via PM.
Oh and ... "miracles" ... also give me ONE example of a miracle, I´m really interested to see which one you will choose.
Quote (Kamizi) It's like getting money for doing nothing. Why would He reward you for not beliving? Anyway, it's said that you'll be rewarded after death.
Why would "belief" in something be worthy of a reward? If I would (for example) start believing that there is a pink unicorn living on top of the joo-joo mountain, I wouldn´t be rewarded for it, nor would it make it true.
Maybe there is some hidden string that only a chosen few people got to understand that believing in a God is the way to go.
Quote (Kamizi) Anyway, it's said that you'll be rewarded after death.
Yes, "it´s said". It´s also been said that Santa is real and he lives somewhere in Finland or in the North Pole. Same for the invisible pink unicorn and so on.
And let´s assume that "God" is a being that should not be compared to fairytales. You got all your belief either from another person (probably your parents) who got it from their prents and so on ... or you/they got it from a book.
So you´re placing your life on belief of other people who got it from a book.
I wouldn´t bet on that for sure, specially because Bible got rewritten 213 times, which is quite a lot of changes for "God´s words" - not to mention all the translations and interpretations.
Quote (Kamizi) He has made everything so everything belongs to him, He's like the boss so He has rights to do whatever he wants.
Well if he wants to do whatever he wants, what does this have to do with us having our own mind and choosing our "ways"?
Your resoning is excellent -- it's only your basic asumptions that are wrong.
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| Jilako | Date: Wednesday, 2011-08-10, 0:15 AM | Message # 263 |
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| Quote hat is free will but still, do you prefer to have some kind of a heaven after death or think in the way of there's nothing, your soul gets torn and it's all over?
That is supposing that we have a soul. Why can't you envisage the fact that there is simply nothing after death? No pain or great joy, but only the void.
Quote Becoz if there's nothing after death, if there is no God, then you can also suicide now and don't care about anything becoz your life is just pointless.
That's the point, if there is nothing after death, then, people have to get their joys while life, if they suicide right now, they will never have access to the "joys of life", to love and all thoses.."things". Also, believing that there is an heaven or anything after your life can be deceiving. People will do their best to act "good" (good reporting to their opinion) to maybe reach nothing (I use maybe because I can't pretend to know what is after death, but I don't believe there is anything)
Quote Kondoms are just not the natural way of... a barrier, that's why the church doesn't allow it. Natural ones are like territory, species or interfility.
Ah, yeah, we should really thank the pope for telling into countries where the fervor is strong that condoms are blasphemy. Let's propagate sexually transmitted disease for "ze fun and in ze name of ze God". Oh, and if you tell me that such diseases are the punishment of God for our sins or whatever, then your God is a savage who punishes generations and kids who can't be blamed for anything but being bornt in a country where people consider condoms as bad thing. And about the child preventing part of condom, yeah, that's not natural, does it make it bad? You do know that because some parents do not use condoms or other preventive ways, they are having kids that they can't even feed? That they are forced to forsake? If you reject sciences progress, you'd rather go live in a cave..
Quote In your way of thinking: if you don't belive in God, why shall he protect you? You don't belive that He does exist so why would he help you?
I'm maybe wrong in interprating Turalyon's words, but I guess he will correct me if I'm wrong, but all he did there was showing that the image given by religions of God are wrong (About God being omnipotent, omniscient,omnipresent and good)
Quote That's why miracles happen to ppl that really belive in God.
Miracles happen to people that really believe in God, or people that really believe in God think that good things happening to them are miracles, denying the truth/reason/science?
Quote Anyway, God has proven his existance so many times, just ppl don't belive it so... it's ppl's problem and their choice.
Obviously. For exemple, when people see Jesus into a pack of chips or on the hair of a dog, it's God's actions..Ah, God, such a jester! (yeah yeah, blasphemy, boo, boo, I know)
The Black Death was told to be God's punishment for our sins, yet, later ,with the progress of science, we discovered something called "genetic" and "biology", which eluded many of the diseases told to be "divine punishment". "Miracles" happening now are called miracles by the believers because they are blinded by their faith or because we can't explain it YET, science has not reached yet its "maximum".
Quote
It's like getting money for doing nothing. Why would He reward you for not beliving? Anyway, it's said that you'll be rewarded after death.
By the way, don't you think it's a nice trick from religions to say that all the rewards will be earnt in after-life, thing that cannot be proved or witnessed?
Quote He has made everything so everything belongs to him, He's like the boss so He has rights to do whatever he wants.
You assume he has made everything (which is wrong with the theory of evolution by Darwin), nothing tell it (except the big book which has been written in the middle of a mountain by a guy hearing voices..)
Seriously, a guy would come to you, pretending that he is back from a mountain with a book that he has written listening to God's words, wouldn't you think he is retarded? If a random guy came to you , pretending he is Jesus, but he refuses to do any "miracle", because your faith is supposed to be enough (this is what you are doing when believing in Jesus and God, you haven't seen any miracle, yet you believe in them), will you believe him and knee down?
What am I , Who am I except a ghost from old times?
Message edited by Jilako - Wednesday, 2011-08-10, 11:10 AM |
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| Turalyon | Date: Wednesday, 2011-08-10, 12:20 PM | Message # 264 |
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| Quote (Kamizi) Kondoms are just not the natural way of... a barrier, that's why the church doesn't allow it. Natural ones are like territory, species or interfility.
Even though Kamizi´s answer to my statement was a misunderstanding, I´d like to say something, same as Jilako said.
Church prevented any child-birth blocking (from chemicals to sour potatoes, etc) way before even knowing what sperm is made of or "what does it do". Every time sperm is ejaculated there are at least 400 million sperm cells in it - at least 90% of them are all capable of fertiling the egg. So from this point of view, the person who gets born out of one of those 400 million sperm cells, he´s a genocidist and arogant sperm cell that killed all other sperm cells for him to be born?
Let me give you one simple example. How come when it´s a chicken, it´s an omelett ... and when it´s a person, it´s an abortion and to some blasphemy?
Quote (Jilako) I'm maybe wrong in interprating Turalyon's words, but I guess he will correct me if I'm wrong, but all he did there was showing that the image given by religions of God are wrong (About God being omnipotent, omniscient,omnipresent and good)
Something like that, most at least.
If someone doesn´t know what omni- words mean, I can give a simplier example:
Can anything be allmighty? Does the word allmighty even have a meaning? If something or someone is allmighty, can it create a rock he cannot lift? If he can´t make it, you´ve got your answer. If he can make it, means he can´t lift it, you got your answer.
And no, stuff like "he doesn´t need to create that kind of rock!" or "he isn´t part of our physical Universe, so that doesn´t apply to him out there!" are not arguments - they are avoiding the problem.
Quote (Kamizi) Anyway, God has proven his existance so many times, just ppl don't belive it so... it's ppl's problem and their choice.
Quote (Jilako) "Miracles" happening now are called miracles by the believers because they are blinded by their faith or because we can't explain it YET, science has not reached yet its "maximum".
It´s basically same as it was some hundered years ago. "God is hiding behind the clouds, where heaven lies!" We made flying machines and found no God and church actually rewrote their scriptures (you can google it) saying "God is beyond the clouds, he lives around the sun and all that is beyond our blue sky" Then we went into space and still didn´t find him ... that is where church rewrote the scriptures again (and somehow people just forgot that even happened, or simply ignored it) saying "God is all around us ... of course, it´s the most logical explanation.".
A believer in God would say "Yeah, it´s obvious" or "You people just try to find him with your petty science, etc" or something like that. But let´s give the SAME story to a "Invisible pink unicorn" ... he lives behind the clouds, bla bla ....... "Invisible Pink Unicorn is all around us ... of course, it´s the most logical explanation." I think if I stated something like that, people would send me into a mental home, even at the part where I would say that he lives behind the clouds.
Somehow we´ve just agreed that God is immune to all these critics and is not considered mental-home-worthy when we speak about him in that way.
Your resoning is excellent -- it's only your basic asumptions that are wrong.
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| Kamizi | Date: Wednesday, 2011-08-10, 8:39 PM | Message # 265 |
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| There is really so much that I could say during reading that all but, telling you that God exists has no point becoz you think science didn't reached it's maximum yet but you also cannot explain many things so it's not an argument.
Quote (Turalyon) Seriously, a guy would come to you, pretending that he is back from a mountain with a book that he has written listening to God's words, wouldn't you think he is retarded? If a random guy came to you , pretending he is Jesus, but he refuses to do any "miracle", because your faith is supposed to be enough (this is what you are doing when believing in Jesus and God, you haven't seen any miracle, yet you believe in them), will you believe him and knee down?
About this... if you've ever read even a bit of "The Book" then you would know that He was always proving "the chosen ppl" that He's the true God.
Also you cannot read The Bible as it is written, at least not everything like how was the world made. Also the church doesn't deny the evolution but it fits to faith.
About God hiding in clouds... ppl were just dumb and taking everything too seriously, it was a metaphor to explain ppl easier why they can't see Him.
You speak about diseases but, there are some exceptions to use kondoms or to do abortion, just read what they're...
"blessed are those who have not seen yet still belive..."
Well, there's really much that could be said but even you've never read the Bible so you can't really agrue. Also I see no point to discuss about religion on clan's forum. That's why other "weird" thoughts are much more welcome to religion stuffs which can be found in net that have been already explained. (and no, this is not even a try to avoid "hard" topics.)
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| Jilako | Date: Wednesday, 2011-08-10, 11:40 PM | Message # 266 |
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| Quote
About this... if you've ever read even a bit of "The Book" then you would know that He was always proving "the chosen ppl" that He's the true God.
So first, about the "true God" part, I think we can interpretate your words as a deny of the other religion's gods. So I ask what allows you to tell your God is true and that the other gods (or their representants) are fake? (and of course, this thing shouldn't be possible to use against "your" God). About the chosen people part, that means that God is a really picky person who favors only an elite in people? "Screw the others, fuck yeah!"... and me who thought God was supposed to be a good entity.
Quote Also the church doesn't deny the evolution but it fits to faith.
Are you meaning that the Church doesn't deny evolution theory but because it is in opposition with the faith, then , they are against it? I guess I misunderstood something ,but yet it is what I understood. If we would be reporting to the Church, the world would have remained a plane world, the universe turning around the earth..
Quote About God hiding in clouds... ppl were just dumb and taking everything too seriously, it was a metaphor to explain ppl easier why they can't see Him.
Isn't it a bit easy to call the people dumb in this time whereas the Church kept burning all the scientists, or declaring them heretics,which had true theories but against what was said by their religion?
Quote You speak about diseases but, there are some exceptions to use kondoms or to do abortion, just read what they're...
You would mind to detail a bit?
Quote Well, there's really much that could be said but even you've never read the Bible so you can't really agrue.
You've never read the manual to build a television , I guess, yet you can say when your tv has a problem.
They are so many holes in religion's speach about the faith and all the stuff around. Yes there are holes as well in sciences, that's why there are many theories about one thing, why a thing is not said to be true until it has been proved well, or that experiences has shown it true. And I won't consider the books written by Jesus nor his apostles as a good report. The greeks historians kept magnifying their stories with flames from hell etc, yet, I doubt many people believe that flames coming out from the ground to burn the enemies can be considered as "truth".
Oh, also, a picture which I found by random looking, which can be seen as a troll and yet not so far from the truth: http://www.lolpics.se/23513-morality
What am I , Who am I except a ghost from old times?
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| Turalyon | Date: Wednesday, 2011-08-10, 11:41 PM | Message # 267 |
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| Quote (Kamizi) There is really so much that I could say during reading that all but, telling you that God exists has no point becoz you think science didn't reached it's maximum yet but you also cannot explain many things so it's not an argument.
Actually, you got it wrong.
There are stuff called theories and there is stuff called proof.
If you want to say "God exists", it is up to YOU to first prove it´s existance and not to wait for sceptics to prove that there isn´t any. If I were to say that there are fairies living in my backdoor garden, I would have to prove it first for people to believe me.
Theories are based on experiments (loads and loads of them), tests, other proved theories and aksioms. Even though something is a theory, it doesn´t make it invalid. For example, gravity is a theory. But from tests and experiments, we know that theory exists - there is not even a single doubt about it, because the proof for it is present with whichever tool you try to test it.
However, why is it a theory and not a proof if it has so many experiments based on it? Because gravity by itself cannot and will never be able to be tested. It needs other comparison to do so.
A good example would be a detective coming to a crime scene. He doesn´t see a murder happening, but from all the evidence left there (footprints, fingerprints, DNA, etc), a detective can determine what actually had happened, but he cannot state he saw it happening.
For God you have neither proof nor even a valid theory. Like I said before, I challenge you to present me with one proof or one miracle ... it shouldn´t be too hard to type one sentence down, should it?
Quote (Kamizi) Quote (Turalyon)
Seriously, a guy would come to you, pretending that he is back from a mountain with a book that he has written listening to God's words, wouldn't you think he is retarded? If a random guy came to you , pretending he is Jesus, but he refuses to do any "miracle", because your faith is supposed to be enough (this is what you are doing when believing in Jesus and God, you haven't seen any miracle, yet you believe in them), will you believe him and knee down?
This was actually written by Jilako.
Quote (Kamizi) Also you cannot read The Bible as it is written,
Which one? The first one, the 42th one, the very last (which is 213rd one)?
Like I said before ... for it to be "the book", it had really loads of editions. Specially because editions in the book are based on scriptures that were written BEFORE the book was written.
Quote (Kamizi) "blessed are those who have not seen yet still belive..."
Well, there's really much that could be said but even you've never read the Bible so you can't really agrue.
Would you like to rethink on the statement that I haven´t read the Bible?
And even so, like I said before and multiple times over (and you still seem to ignore it), that when you try to prove something or make someone follow your thoughts, your thoughts need to be beyond the comparisons of other subjects.
Yet I bet you haven´t done even one good comparison with your arguments. Mine are based on 8 out of 10 different subjects to its full detail. Top that!
Quote (Kamizi) Also I see no point to discuss about religion on clan's forum. That's why other "weird" thoughts are much more welcome to religion stuffs which can be found in net that have been already explained. (and no, this is not even a try to avoid "hard" topics.)
If you´re not gonna discuss it here, then where would you discuss it if even?
And besides, if you don´t feel like discussing the subject, feel free to not reply, I´m sure someone else will have a word to say eventually.
Your resoning is excellent -- it's only your basic asumptions that are wrong.
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| DonSpeedy | Date: Thursday, 2011-08-11, 0:53 AM | Message # 268 |
 Major
Group: Clan Friends
Messages: 175
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| *sneaks into forum, looks around suspiciously, posts video, runs away, madly laughing*
Message edited by DonSpeedy - Thursday, 2011-08-11, 0:54 AM |
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