Quote (Kamizi)
Tur you're not really right at all. Maps like grayskull or ctf_mp2 I'd say are good for ctf too. As for me they're balanced enough. Anyway, if for you balanced map means "exacly the same in 2 corners"... ctf2 and ctf3 look exacly the same on both sides but it doesn't mean that they're balanced, they're just... the same everywhere. Balanced map should be just fair for both sides, it doesn't mean that all ways should look the same on both sides. Anyway, atm I'm making the map for contest, we will see if it's well balanced or not, I hope it'll be a new ctf map for everyone.
As for custom map that is balanced maybe you meant ctf trenches or sth like that.
No, I don't mean CTF_2 and CTF_3 only because they're identical on both sides, because that would be too narrowed assumption.
However, to make it balanced, you mustn't only think about only the basics, but also the classes that play in it (combination of them).
Also, if you made a map that is basically a square, and you put a flag on each side and you wouldn't use anything except for a straight terrain - that would not be balanced, because the enemy knows exactly where you are going (straight line), and you can't use any environment or backdoors to achieve the same goal. CTF_MP2 isn't a balanced map nor suitable for CTF. I'll give a bad example of it first, which is that this map was made for a Crusade, meaning that one side has the advantage over other. Now to look at it from a rational view, it's true that not whole map is usable (Graveyard isn't, but that change isn't really a balance-changing one). If you play as a Human, you have two ways to get the flag. Through the door or through the bridge. If you'd go through the bridge, it means either you have a massive escort, or the whole team died. Now if you're going through the other side, which is around 90% of the time, it's a valley, a simple street without a contingency plan. A well placed bomb on the door and a Mage behind it can destroy the whole team. And for going through the bridge, it's too open terrain. If you take the basement, people will notice it, and again, there is only one way out.
For Undead side it's basically similar. Two ways ... a direct way through their whole spawn or backdoor. If you take the backdoor, you get into the open area again. Throwing the flags is easier, but tell me, how many times would you throw a flag in a ClanWar? If you take the direct route, you'd have two options. One that is a backyard, so the same route as Humans can use - too small, or you could go through the basement and come out in the middle of the field. However, for Undead side the basement tunnel is easier. They can take the flag there without even getting noticed, because it's at their exact spawn (unless you have bad luck of people spawning there) and getting out really really close to your own bridge already. With a proper escort, you'd achieve the goal.
CTF_grayskull is basically a definition of an unbalanced map that was made for either the looks or quick attraction. Undead can simply go on the castle wall and throw the flag across the bridges, whereas Humans have nothing like that. Also, Humans have a freaking castle which is a perfect camping point for a Mage that can snipe their whole team and an Assassin to guard the sewers. The area in the middle is too open. And no, it's not similar to CTF_3 about that. I'll tell you what. Try having a ClanWar on that map and play first round on one side and the second round on the other. And give me your opinion.
Bring up a map that has ...
More than one layer. Instead of putting things down randomly if it's easy to cross or not, try to test a map with someone else on it. For example you and a Warrior chasing you.
Always make alternative routes, not 3 obvious ones and call them "alternatives".
Don't put the flags too close.
Make it possible for at least one throwing position that can be a game-changing if allowed to succeed.
If there is a platform that can see a bigger platform, don't make it a closed or confined one.
.... and then I will support it by it's balance.
(Oh btw, all these things I noted between the underlined broken sentence are exactly what ctf_grayskull is missing)
